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Fellowship Paper
The Boston Evening Academy's Community Interviews: Making Learning Meaningful Through Intergenerational Dialogue
By Ryan Richard Oliver The Boston Evening Academy
Massachusetts Charter School Fellowship Program 2001
Introduction "You teach when?!" This is a typical response when I mention to people that I work at an alternative public school where all classes are held in the evening. Now entering its fifth year as a Horace Mann Charter School, The Boston Evening Academy (BEA) serves a slightly older population of students most of whom are either working or parenting full-time during the daylight hours. Though many have not found success in their previous school the reasons for this relate more to attendance and disengagement rather than innate capacity. Many, though not all, enjoy greater success at BEA, a result, they often say, of the positive relationships they have with teachers and staff, the relevant topics studied in class, and opportunities for learning outside the classroom. Realizing the success of forays beyond the walls of the classroom and even school, we have committed ourselves to experimenting with various practices that encourage and require students to learn outside the classroom. Urban labs--educational field trips to community lectures, forums, and events--have been a hallmark of the school's curriculum from the beginning, and the increased emphasis on community service has greatly expanded the scope and variety of student learning outside school hours. In the past year, for example, a team of teachers piloted an innovative project; they took students to New Hampshire for an interdisciplinary study of the White Mountains ecosystem. My own contribution to this whole school focus is an experiment with a practice I first experienced when I was a high school student: the community interview. In brief, this practice aims to re-contextualize the knowledge and information we present in schools. This is accomplished through students interviewing members of the local, national, and even global community, individuals who are actively engaged in their work. This method is philosophically grounded in a return to the notion of education as a process of storytelling, apprenticeship, and mentoring by a variety of adults in the community. The method is also consistent with modern day research on teaching and learning and is based upon years of practice in a variety of educational settings. While the potential benefits of the practice are numerous, community interviews are particularly well suited to addressing the fundamental need to bolster student retention of content knowledge, information, and the skills utilized across disciplines. Simultaneously it forges intergenerational connections. Before describing in detail the process I have used to prepare for, conduct, and reflect upon these interviews, I will share some history of my own learning and teaching, adaptations I've made of the practice, and its grounding in research. Next, I provide examples of how this practice has been used, including anecdotal evidence of its success. Finally, I address obstacles that might arise in transferring this method to other contexts, as well as how these might be overcome. * * * From my earliest years I always loved school. However, sometime in the spring of my sophomore year of high school I became dissatisfied and began to lose some of the joy that had always been part of my educational experience. Unsure of precisely what was lacking in the large, primarily traditional, public school I attended, I went looking for an alternative. What I found was Mount Madonna (MMS), a small, non-denominational, private school, nestled in the Santa Cruz redwoods with a radical concept: make school part of life, by focusing on the meaning and purpose of knowledge rather than merely its acquisition. An especially inspiring component of my two years at MMS was participating in the school's tradition of conducting interviews with prominent members of the local, national, and global community. During my junior year we took a break from our American History text to do a study of Mexican history, politics, and culture. The study served as preparation, as after it we traveled to Mexico City for a weeklong experience of meeting and interviewing various people from the curator of the national museum, to a prominent architect, to a local doctor. Participating in this experience, and many others like it closer to home, had such a positive and profound effect on my intellectual, emotional, and moral development that I have incorporated the practice of community interviews into my current work as a Humanities teacher at The Boston Evening Academy, also a small school utilizing an alternative approach but with a vastly different student population. The results of using this practice in both environments have been extremely positive, and I think it would be intriguing to attempt some adaptation of this model in a larger, more "traditional" educational setting. The practice can be used in two ways, depending on the flexibility of the school curriculum and the aims of the particular teacher. In one method the teacher builds the entire course around the exploration of values in American thought using the "Values in American Thought Curriculum," a product of twelve years of experimentation at Mount Madonna School. (For more information and samples of this pilot curriculum contact Mr. Ward Mailliard via e-mail at wardkranti@earthlink.net). In the other, the interviewing practice is used as a supplement and to enhance curricula developed or used by the classroom teacher. In either case the essence of the interviewing practice itself remains unchanged. Before proceeding I'd like to include a brief note. A few statements regarding possible content choices will be mentioned below (in discussing examples of success). But my primary aim in this paper is to explicitly describe the method of guiding students through the process of conducting group interviews with members of the community, and the vast and multi-layered benefits to be derived from incorporating such a practice into any curriculum. Much of the appeal and value of this method derive from its compatibility with nearly any curriculum, regardless of subject or content. The principles behind it remain valid and accessible whether one uses it in the teaching and learning of Government, Biology, Algebra, or Literature, to name only a few options. Supporting Research Given the intense pressure to enable students to succeed on such standardized and concrete forms of assessment as the MCAS and SAT I, some educators may be concerned that engaging students in the practice of interviewing is impractical. They need only examine current research relating various teaching methods to rates at which students retain content taught. According to the "Learning Pyramid" published by the National Training Laboratory (NTL) in Bethel, Maine, students retain only 5% of what is taught through lecture and a mere 10% from what they read. Even supposedly innovative methods incorporating the use of audiovisuals, demonstrations, and/or discussion groups yield only 20, 30, and 50% retention, respectively. In contrast, learning by doing (which is what community interviews are all about), or as the NTL calls it, "Practice by Doing," yields retention rates of up to 75%. When taken to its full potential, by engaging students in the teaching of others, retention rates soar to as much as 90%. (National Training Laboratories) Merely covering material is not only boring (for educators as well as students), but also, and more importantly, it's ineffective. Even if we accept, or are forced to settle for, the minimalist aim of helping our students pass the gauntlet of standardized tests necessary for their graduation and entrance into the college of their choice, the practice of community interviews provides a superior means of ensuring they will actually retain the content in question long enough to put it to even this, rather limited, use. Of course, any educator employing the practice of community interviews must do the challenging work of connecting particular content with the experiential components. Moreover, once this work is done, there's no guarantee that given the time required to prepare for, conduct, and reflect upon these interviews, all the desired content will be covered. Nonetheless, if an educator is to embrace the practice fully they will almost certainly have to first accept the premise that "less is more," Principle #2 of the Coalition of Essential Schools. That Principle states: The school's goals should be simple: that each student master a limited number of essential skills and areas of knowledge. While these skills and areas will, to varying degrees, reflect the traditional academic disciplines, the program's design should be shaped by the intellectual and imaginative powers and competencies that the students need, rather than by "subjects" as conventionally defined. The aphorism "less is more" should dominate: curricular decisions should be guided by the aim of thorough student mastery and achievement rather than by an effort to merely cover content. (Coalition of Essential Schools) Though certainly not a cure-all for the disconnect between generations that is endemic to our culture, research also shows that linking adults and young people makes significant strides toward a smoother integration of young people into the life and identity of the larger community. In their important work Situated Learning: Legitimate Peripheral Participation, Lave and Wenger (1991) emphasize the universality of learning. They describe it as a process of moving, in a spiraling manner, toward increasingly central participation in a community of people with particular skills and knowledge. Based on their research on apprenticeship in a variety of cultures, they claim that apprenticeships entail not only the acquisition of skills and knowledge, but also the formation of identities. In order for identities to be developed effectively, newcomers to a community must have access to living models of what it looks like to be a full participant that community. (Lave and Wenger 1991) Lave and Wenger lament the prevalent model of the school as an isolated place separate from the life of the larger community and encourage exploration of other, more integrated systems for educating our children. I feel strongly that conducting interviews with various members of the adult community is one means of shifting this unfortunate dynamic. Rather than sequestering young people during their formative years, keeping them away from the wide variety of important members of the adult community (as is common in most traditional schools), the practice of community interviews allows for a meeting of generations in a meaningful context that will ideally lead to a more fluid and effective transition from one life stage to another. Thus, on its deepest level, these interviews can provide the opportunity for students to access not only what interviewees know, but also who they are as people; students gain access to the life wisdom interviewees have garnered through experience. Through community interviews the links between generations, often strained or broken for many children who lack access to grandparents and other elders in the community, can be reconstructed and the difficult transition into adulthood eased. What's more, the communication that occurs will, in most cases, foster greater understanding on both sides, thus easing the tensions that exist between young and old. The Practice of Community Interviewing Separated into its constituent parts this practice includes: 1. Building a Base in Content (reading, discussion, vocabulary development, skill-building)
2. Developing Interviewing Skills
3. Preparing to Create the Interview
4. Creating the Interview
5. Final Editing
6. Interviewing
7. Reflecting and Following-up
Other Ideas:
Community Interviews: the Practice in Context Community interviews have been successfully practiced by divergent populations and in a wide variety of environments, providing clear evidence that the practice is transferable to other public schools. Ward Mailliard, one of my former teachers at Mount Madonna School (mentioned previously), created an entire curriculum using Bill Moyers' A World of Ideas Volumes I and II as the foundation for conducting interviews locally and as far away as Washington, D.C. and Cambridge, MA. This past year Mr. Mailliard's class focused exclusively on reading, discussing, and writing papers on the interviews selected for the curriculum; then, as a culminating project, they spent a week in Cambridge interviewing four Harvard professors, three of whom were featured in the World of Ideas series. During their interview with Professor Sara Lawrence Lightfoot, a group of my students from the Boston Evening Academy joined in, creating a beautiful synthesis. The merging of these two groups, one primarily African-American and Latino students from some of the most economically depressed neighborhoods of Boston, the other white middle-class students from the west coast, was a mind opening experience in and of itself. The combination of students, coupled with a deep and honest conversation with a fine person, one with wisdom and a wealth of experience, made the experience almost magical. As a follow-up, students at Mount Madonna are working on the creation of a curriculum to compliment the interviews they did; they hope the curriculum will be used by future students at their school and by my students in Boston. At BEA my own adaptation of the practice of community interviewing has taken numerous forms over the past two years. Early on I transformed the set-up into a debate format. Working on the student selected topic of "Capital Punishment" I spent a semester preparing, building up students' background knowledge of the subject through readings, discussions, and audio-visual presentations. During the fourth quarter I invited a State Representative and a public defender to debate the issue using a series of guiding questions prepared by my students. Using the same basic methods described above, we generated unique questions for each individual and questions for both to answer. Although we did not go off site for the actual debate, we invited the entire school to participate and ask questions following our planned piece. What resulted was a fiery and intense debate, though civil, that engaged the full attention of more than thirty students for nearly an hour and a half. Using the information gained from this experience as well as their research over the course of the semester, my students performed public speeches of their own at our end of the year exhibition of student work at the Boston Center for the Arts. They were able to connect with two prominent members of the community and then foster further connections with those parents, friends, and supporters who were present at their presentations. Leading up to, during, and following these experiences I saw significant leaps in student excitement, about the topic and learning in general. While students were nervous about their ability to rise to the occasion, once they saw they could do it they became confident and excited about doing it again. In another related exercise I used one of the World of Ideas interviews as supplementary material in my course Democracy and Social Change. Students studied the interview and a number of other sources (texts and multi-media) on democracy, politics, campaigns, and elections. They then interviewed local representatives of each major political party and thereby prepared for their own "Year 2000 Presidential Debates" project. Using the information and knowledge they gained, students (prior to the November 2000 election) wrote excellent campaign speeches and put on an amazing public performance for the school. Most recently I used the practice of community interviews in my work to develop an interdisciplinary project around the topic, "Disease and Social Change." Using more traditional sources as background information, such as novels, histories, and scientific texts, my colleagues and I set up an interview with two prominent members of the Codman Square Health Center in Dorchester--Maryanne Kirkbride, Director of Public Health, and Dr. Bill Loesch, Coordinator of Teen Programs. We traveled to their work place (where students were given the opportunity to sign up for free health care), and students conducted an excellent interview--with style and professionalism. They gained important information regarding public health, the social and biological aspects of disease, and their interviewees' perspectives on suffering, all of which were incorporated into a required research paper on the disease they feel causes the most suffering in Boston. After the interview we shared a meal with our interviewees, allowing all present to interact on a more informal level. Feedback from both students and those interviewed was overwhelmingly positive, and once again the quality of students' year-end presentations showed their growth. As a next step I am working to incorporate the practice of community interviews into a larger project aimed at connecting school and community through what we at BEA are calling "Community Action Education." Our aim is to unify some of our individual efforts in a program that would guide and fund students in choosing, researching, and addressing a pressing community issue in a way that fulfills their academic requirements. Ideally students will use the interviewing skills they have gained through past experiences and work to understand how members of the local community feel and think about specific issues. They'll also increase their awareness of and access to expert knowledge available in the larger community. One student, inspired by her experiences with the Lawrence-Lightfoot interview, is even considering creating and publishing her own book of interviews on the topic of education and urban youth; this project would serve as the central product of her Community Action Education Project. Many things still need to be worked out for Community Action Education to become a reality. But given our population and their concerns, linking our academic curriculum to an examination of the problems and questions that arise outside the school walls is a logical next step. Potential Obstacles and Transferability Primary obstacles that may impede the implementation of this practice are: lack of flexibility in schedule, lack of resources, or intense curricular constraints which value breadth over depth. Each of these obstacles may lessen the extent to which the practice might be implemented, but none of them, even if experienced simultaneously, would completely rule out the use and positive impact of the practice within a given school or classroom. A flexible schedule is, however, ideal when trying to include meaningful interactions and trips to visit people outside the school. Moreover, many students who are more kinesthetic learners are more engaged when they can leave the confines of the school building. Leaving the building gives them direct experience not only with the ideas and demeanor of the person interviewed, it also introduces the student to settings within the adult world. Without this flexibility, however, guests can, and have, been brought into the school building (within the limits of regularly scheduled classes) to participate in interviews. Lack of resources may also reduce the ability to go off-site, but it should not inhibit the ability to draw participants. In seven years of involvement with this program, not one of our interviewees has ever requested or received any financial remuneration. Financial resources are needed, however, for the documentation and dissemination of the interviews, as adequate funds allow the interviews to be videotaped and even collected into a publishable book of transcripts. With limited resources, however, one could very easily tape-record and/or write up transcripts and then simply photocopy and publish through the use of a home computer. Finally, the constraints of rigid curricular requirements may also block the practice from having its full effect. Students need time to delve deeply into the intense life questions that arise and to adequately prepare for an interview and debrief afterward. But given a time or curricular constraint, a smaller number of interviews could still be conducted, thus using the practice to enhance and bring to life the content examined throughout the year. The practice of community interviews can also be used as a culminating experience, to assess and deepen student learning.
Conclusion The examples included in this paper represent only a few of the possibilities for the adaptation and transfer of this practice to other settings. Without fail, community interviews have proven to be exceptional experiences for all involved. Students who regularly participate in them have shown great strides in their acquisition of fundamental content knowledge, as evidenced in the quality of work they produce. Even more inspiring are the meaningful inter-generational connections forged in the process. None of this is possible without expanding not only our notion of what it means to educate, but also our definition of where a school's boundaries lie.
About the Author Ryan Oliver is currently in his third year as a Humanities Teacher at the Boston Evening Academy--the first diploma granting evening high school in Boston. Born and raised in Santa Cruz, CA, Ryan traveled east for college, earning a degree in Social Studies from Harvard College in 1998 and a teaching credential through the Undergraduate Teacher Education Program (guided skillfully by Lissa Hodder) in 1999. His passion for education developed through years of watching his mother work to establish her own alternative school, intellectual conversations with his father, the supportive guidance of the Mount Madonna School and community, as well as through the modeling provided by such great teachers as Ms. Sara Lawrence-Lightfoot, Mr. Ward Mailliard, and Mr. Baba Hari Dass.
References Cushman, Kathleen, ed. 1989. Asking Essential Questions: Curriculum Development. Horace 5, no. 5. June. Diaz, Yolanda, ed. 2001. Mount Madonna School and The Boston Evening Academy Interview with Professor Sara Lawrence Lightfoot at Harvard University. Watsonville, CA: Mount Madonna School. Duplicated. Jensen, Eric. 1998. Teaching with the Brain in Mind. Alexandria, VA: Association for Supervision and Curriculum Development. Lawrence-Lightfoot, Sara. 1999. Respect: An Exploration. Reading, MA: Perseus Books. ____________. 1994. I've Known Rivers. Reading, MA: Addison-Wesley. Lave and Wenger. 1991. Situated Learning: Legitimate Peripheral Participation. Cambridge; New York: Cambridge University Press. Mailliard, Ward. 1992-present. Personal communications. Moyers, Bill. 1989. A World of Ideas, Volume I. Edited by Betty Sue Flowers. New York: Doubleday. Moyers, Bill. 1990. A World of Ideas, Volume II. Edited by Andie Tucher. New York: Doubleday. National Training Laboratories. Circa 1970. Learning Pyramid. Bethel, Maine: NTL. Simon, Kathy, and Amy Gersten. The CES: A Principle-Based Approach to School Reform. Retrieved 30 October 2001 from the Coalition of Essential Schools Web site: www.essentialschools.org Sousa, David A. 2001. How the Special Needs Brain Learns. Thousand Oaks, CA: Corwin Press. Ten Common Principles. Retrieved June 2001 from the Coalition of Essential Schools Web site: www.essentialschools.org
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